Comments on: Teaching Programming With Scribblers http://www.helenemartin.com/2010-05-teaching-programming-with-scribblers/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=teaching-programming-with-scribblers You don't understand something until you've taught a teenager to teach a computer to do it. Wed, 25 Jan 2012 03:01:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: possiblywrong http://www.helenemartin.com/2010-05-teaching-programming-with-scribblers/comment-page-1/#comment-1699 possiblywrong Sun, 05 Dec 2010 22:08:24 +0000 http://www.helenemartin.com/?p=306#comment-1699 Yes, the current version has both the stall and proximity sensors implemented. This has been a fun project for me; let me know if you have any luck, problems, etc. And you're right, this is certainly an idealization of the real thing. A possible improvement I have thought about would be to add a noise model and/or P(fail) model to the sensors. But part of my reason for starting with the simulator is as a smooth transition from the VPython work that they are already comfortable with, and to excite them about working with robots... without frustrating them in the beginning :). I am not much of a teacher (I'm just volunteering), and this is a new experiment for me, so I am frankly curious to see how the students will respond. Yes, the current version has both the stall and proximity sensors implemented. This has been a fun project for me; let me know if you have any luck, problems, etc.

And you’re right, this is certainly an idealization of the real thing. A possible improvement I have thought about would be to add a noise model and/or P(fail) model to the sensors. But part of my reason for starting with the simulator is as a smooth transition from the VPython work that they are already comfortable with, and to excite them about working with robots… without frustrating them in the beginning :) . I am not much of a teacher (I’m just volunteering), and this is a new experiment for me, so I am frankly curious to see how the students will respond.

]]> By: Hélène Martin http://www.helenemartin.com/2010-05-teaching-programming-with-scribblers/comment-page-1/#comment-1696 Hélène Martin Sun, 05 Dec 2010 15:39:47 +0000 http://www.helenemartin.com/?p=306#comment-1696 Your simulator is great! I may actually consider using it instead of Turtle Graphics as my starting activity. Are the sensors implemented in the version you linked to? I plan to check it out soon. Note that the stall sensor doesn't work as far as I can tell and that the proximity sensors are very susceptible to noise. You may want to have your students use the Scribblers first, then when they get frustrated play with the virtual world and discuss the differences. I worry that you'll have a hard time selling the actual product if they're used to something that works as expected... Your simulator is great! I may actually consider using it instead of Turtle Graphics as my starting activity. Are the sensors implemented in the version you linked to? I plan to check it out soon.

Note that the stall sensor doesn’t work as far as I can tell and that the proximity sensors are very susceptible to noise. You may want to have your students use the Scribblers first, then when they get frustrated play with the virtual world and discuss the differences. I worry that you’ll have a hard time selling the actual product if they’re used to something that works as expected…

]]> By: possiblywrong http://www.helenemartin.com/2010-05-teaching-programming-with-scribblers/comment-page-1/#comment-1695 possiblywrong Sun, 05 Dec 2010 15:06:27 +0000 http://www.helenemartin.com/?p=306#comment-1695 I stumbled across your blog while searching for information about the Scribbler, in anticipation of using it for the first time later this year. I think I share your opinions about both the Scribbler's potential for flakiness and Mindstorms' lack of programming focus. I want the students to learn about programming, and to think about the algorithms and mathematics involved in the problems they are solving. To that end, I recently developed a robot simulator that you might be interested in. The students are currently using <a href="http://vpython.org/" rel="nofollow">VPython</a>, which I think has been a great "post-introductory" tool for working with graphics, physical modeling, etc. From there we just moved to the simulator, which uses VPython. Right now we are just using it as a fancier turtle graphics engine. But I recently added support for obstacle detection and navigation, with stall and proximity sensors on a chassis modeled after the Scribbler. I plan to move into that, in a "cleaner" simulated environment, before advancing to the "real thing" with all of its extra quirks that you have already described. You can check it out <a href="http://possiblywrong.wordpress.com/2010/12/04/robot-simulator-and-turtle-graphics/" rel="nofollow">here</a>; any suggestions are appreciated. Look forward to reading more. I stumbled across your blog while searching for information about the Scribbler, in anticipation of using it for the first time later this year. I think I share your opinions about both the Scribbler’s potential for flakiness and Mindstorms’ lack of programming focus. I want the students to learn about programming, and to think about the algorithms and mathematics involved in the problems they are solving.

To that end, I recently developed a robot simulator that you might be interested in. The students are currently using VPython, which I think has been a great “post-introductory” tool for working with graphics, physical modeling, etc. From there we just moved to the simulator, which uses VPython. Right now we are just using it as a fancier turtle graphics engine.

But I recently added support for obstacle detection and navigation, with stall and proximity sensors on a chassis modeled after the Scribbler. I plan to move into that, in a “cleaner” simulated environment, before advancing to the “real thing” with all of its extra quirks that you have already described.

You can check it out here; any suggestions are appreciated.

Look forward to reading more.

]]> By: Hélène Martin http://www.helenemartin.com/2010-05-teaching-programming-with-scribblers/comment-page-1/#comment-141 Hélène Martin Sun, 23 May 2010 15:20:53 +0000 http://www.helenemartin.com/?p=306#comment-141 Michael: Check out the specs on the <a href="http://www.parallax.com/tabid/826/Default.aspx" rel="nofollow">Scribbler 2</a> coming out this summer... it has a mic and other goodies. I'm going to try to get a couple for the fall. Michael: Check out the specs on the Scribbler 2 coming out this summer… it has a mic and other goodies. I’m going to try to get a couple for the fall.

]]> By: Michael Rosenberger http://www.helenemartin.com/2010-05-teaching-programming-with-scribblers/comment-page-1/#comment-137 Michael Rosenberger Sun, 23 May 2010 07:38:11 +0000 http://www.helenemartin.com/?p=306#comment-137 <3 Scribblers :D Seems like they could dramatically lower the price of these if they got rid of the useless sensors on the back, and the other ones that don't work anyways... All you really need is light, obstacle, and picture taking. Maybe with the extra space and money they'd save from getting rid of the unused sensors, they could add a microphone! Then we could make that 11 year old with Scheme happy and make it controlled by voice commands :P <3 Scribblers :D

Seems like they could dramatically lower the price of these if they got rid of the useless sensors on the back, and the other ones that don't work anyways… All you really need is light, obstacle, and picture taking. Maybe with the extra space and money they'd save from getting rid of the unused sensors, they could add a microphone! Then we could make that 11 year old with Scheme happy and make it controlled by voice commands :P

]]> By: Hélène Martin http://www.helenemartin.com/2010-05-teaching-programming-with-scribblers/comment-page-1/#comment-134 Hélène Martin Sun, 23 May 2010 01:24:32 +0000 http://www.helenemartin.com/?p=306#comment-134 Jon-- Interesting. If you find out more or have other ideas for a relatively cheap, unbreakable robot programmed in a 'real' language do let me know! Jon–

Interesting. If you find out more or have other ideas for a relatively cheap, unbreakable robot programmed in a ‘real’ language do let me know!

]]> By: Jonathan http://www.helenemartin.com/2010-05-teaching-programming-with-scribblers/comment-page-1/#comment-133 Jonathan Sun, 23 May 2010 01:14:14 +0000 http://www.helenemartin.com/?p=306#comment-133 I saw an evaluation board on wheels at the TI booth at ESC. There were two of them, a bit larger than a CD each, in a little arena and they'd change directions when they hit something. I can't find a product page for it, so I assume it's not released yet, but it looked like an interesting platform. Definitely not as robust as these scribblers look, but probably useful for advanced stuff. Wish I took a picture of it! http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20100427005934&newsLang=en http://bookstore.micrium.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=26 I saw an evaluation board on wheels at the TI booth at ESC. There were two of them, a bit larger than a CD each, in a little arena and they’d change directions when they hit something. I can’t find a product page for it, so I assume it’s not released yet, but it looked like an interesting platform. Definitely not as robust as these scribblers look, but probably useful for advanced stuff. Wish I took a picture of it!

http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20100427005934&newsLang=en

http://bookstore.micrium.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=26

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